"If it is a matter of a couple of hundred dollars discount we would be more than happy to accommodate you but if you are looking for thousands, we do not have that type of mark up in our pre-owned inventory as that is not how we price our units." - This seems like bullshit and how do they think we don't know it.

I'm looking for a used GTI - I just want a good deal. There must be some real idiots out there thinking that a couple hundred dollars off a car that, once you do a little TrueCar research, says is about $3,000 over market value. How is this even possible that sales people even think that we don't know these comments are completely false?

Now, I've had some special training when it comes to dealing with sales people; I worked at a wholesale dealership and I know how much these places pay for these cars. You can pretty much expect a 15% mark-up, sometimes more. It all depends on how ruthless the dealership was when the car was traded in or when it was bought from the auction.

The thing to be sure you are aware is that these techniques are used to scare you into thinking they wont negotiate very much, the car is worth more than you think, and you're getting a great deal when you're totally getting ripped off. I once sat in a dealership and had the salesperson say that "this is rock bottom pricing, they wont go any lower at this price, it's a good deal." When we went and sat down at their desk, the price had droppped $500. The next day the car had dropped another $1000. They're so full of shit it's not even funny.

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I've bought expensive cars too. I own a Porsche and seriously, the buying experience at these premier companies is so much better. When you buy an expensive car the sales people just treat you better, they know you're too smart to be haggled, you've done your research and know how much these cars go for. The current Porsche I own I got for $5,000 under list AND got a great deal on my trade and I don't care if they made money, it was a great deal and both sides we're happy. No shark-like sales techniques.

You see articles stating that Tesla's direct sales are bad for consumers, that dealerships keep your best interests in mind and let the market regulate fairer prices. The only probelm is that these dealerships all talk to each other and laugh at you. They all jack the prices up and they all set a rediculous "market value" for these cars.

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I bought a BMW 135i once, went to the dealership, test drove it, and sat down at the sales person's desk and offered him 2k under their sales price. He said, "We're not doing this." Stunned, I told him I was, and that's the price I want to offer. He repeated that they're not negotiating, the car is priced very well. I looked at my fiancee and said, "Ok, thanks." And proceeded to get up. I then ended up getting the car I wanted, at the price I wanted.

Why do sales people not want to negotiate, threaten that prices are fixed or within a couple hundred dollars? Why are they so violent against quickly making a deal on a car rather than violently stuff arm negotiations?

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This comes out saying that negotiating is better for the customer. Well then why won't places actually negotiate reasonably? What makes them think that $400 off of a car that's $3,000 over market value (not wholesale value, market value) is a good deal? Who would take that deal?

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Sales people could do so much more business if they weren't such sharks. I literally would buy a car at a fair price right now. Thankfully, I have time on my side.